About this episode
Serial investor JL COLLINS reveals why renting is smarter than buying, the biggest lies about investing, how tax and debt destroy wealth, and how small savings will TRANSFORM your life! JL Collins is a financial educator best known for his book ‘The Simple Path to Wealth’, which has sold millions of copies worldwide. He’s also the author of the JL Collins blog, including the renowned ‘Stock Series’, and has been investing for over 4 decades. He explains: ◼️How “F-You Money” changes every decision you make ◼️Why mortgages lock up opportunity and reduce long-term freedom ◼️Why index funds outperform almost everyone over a lifetime ◼️Why working harder doesn’t stop being broke ◼️Why financial independence is about control, not consumption 00:00 Intro 03:27 Common Misconceptions About Money 05:10 Financial Freedom 06:15 Successful People Often Have Trauma 13:11 Mental Benefits of Financial Security 14:22 What Is F.U. Money? 15:59 Buying a House Isn’t Always a Good Financial Idea 20:46 The Psychological Impact of Buying a House 22:00 Why Younger Generations Could Benefit From Flexible Living 25:32 The Easiest Path to Wealth 26:49 What’s Stopping You From Becoming Financially Independent 29:32 How Spending Habits Reflect Self-Esteem 31:30 Advice for Getting Out of Debt 36:03 Should I Invest in Bitcoin? 38:43 Should I Rush to Pay Off My Mortgage? 40:50 Interest Rates Explained 41:28 How Mortgages Work 42:36 How to Get a Good Interest Rate on Your Mortgage 46:37 Is It Safe to Invest in Stocks in the AI Era? 49:17 Emotional Impact of Investing Without Enough Money 52:33 Do Men Take More Investment Risks Than Women? 54:09 Ads 55:13 The Magic of Compounding Interest 1:02:38 What's the Point of Being Frugal If I Want to Enjoy Life? 1:03:35 Young People Don’t Care About Their Future Selves 1:07:08 Why You Should Invest for Your Children 1:10:28 How Much of My Income Should I Be Saving? 1:12:54 Deferring Taxes With Retirement Savings Plans 1:20:04 Index Funds vs Individual Stocks 1:27:39 The Beer Analogy (Stocks) 1:33:40 Don’t Sell When the Market Drops 1:35:09 Is Investing Just Gambling? 1:36:06 Are Financial Courses a Scam? 1:37:27 Ads 1:39:26 Do I Need a Financial Advisor? 1:42:13 What Does Your Portfolio Look Like? 1:43:19 What Are Bonds? 1:45:23 Asking ChatGPT the Ideal Path to Wealth 1:46:26 How Do I Earn More? 1:47:14 Why Failure Is Necessary for Growth 1:49:33 You Can Have a Small Income and Still Be Financially Free 1:59:53 What's Your Biggest Regret? Follow JL Collins: X - https://bit.ly/4jy2cfp Instagram - https://bit.ly/49binMk You can purchase JL’s book ‘The Simple Path to Wealth: Your road map to financial independence and a rich, free life’, here: https://amzn.to/4aQvBPV The Diary Of A CEO: ◼️Join DOAC circle here - https://doaccircle.com/ ◼️Buy The Diary Of A CEO book here - https://smarturl.it/DOACbook ◼️The 1% Diary is back - limited time only: https://bit.ly/3YFbJbt ◼️The Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards (Second Edition): https://g2ul0.app.link/f31dsUttKKb ◼️Get email updates - https://bit.ly/diary-of-a-ceo-yt ◼️Follow Steven - https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb Lucas Jones (poet and artist): https://www.instagram.com/lucassjoness/?hl=en Sponsors: Rubrik - To learn more, head to https://rubrik.com Stan: NO PURCHASE NECESSARY. VOID WHERE PROHIBITED. For Official Rules, visit https://DaretoDream.stan.store
Episode summary
Give me thirty seconds of your time. Thank you for riding with us week after week—it still feels surreal, and yet we’re only just getting started; hit follow, and I’ll keep pushing to bring the conversations you want. J.L. Collins, your book The Simple Path to Wealth has helped millions; why did you write it?
I wrote it out of letters to my daughter because getting money right opens doors; it’s not only what money buys, it’s what money can earn for you. Most people only see money as a shopping tool; I want them to see it as an engine that buys freedom.
That reframing matters because trading time for money keeps you beholden to a paycheck; when your investments cover your life, work becomes optional.
I escaped low-wage call center life by taking reckless risks fueled by old insecurity; it felt like I had no plan B, only a chip on my shoulder.
A lot of driven people carry some past hurt, while others with calmer upbringings are content with enough. The monk-and-minister parable in my book makes the point: if you can live on rice and beans, you don’t have to serve the king—needing less is powerful.
I know joyful wealthy people, but many of the richest I’ve met are restless because the same ghosts that drove them still linger; my own turning point was realizing stuff doesn’t deliver lasting happiness.
The journey is satisfying, the destination less so; set expectations low, enjoy the thing without asking it to make you happy. Money amplifies who you already are and mainly buys options, not joy.
When I was broke, getting rich felt like the only way to stop the pain; wealth didn’t add happiness as much as it removed the anxiety of not having choices.
Exactly—poverty is brutal in our modern system. And what people call FU money is the freedom you gain along the way to full independence, like the strength to leave a bad job months or years before you ‘never need to work again.’
If you want independence early, think twice before buying a house; people overbuy, tie up capital, and get hit with taxes, maintenance, and endless upgrades while calling the mortgage ‘the same as rent.’
I learned the hard way; my ‘holiday home’ became a money pit and a mental anchor that killed flexibility, and the guilt of paying double made moving with opportunity so much harder.
Flexibility is priceless and real estate is expensive to enter and exit; if you can’t sell, you become an accidental landlord, which is rarely optimal.
Give me your simple path in a sentence.
Avoid debt, live on less than you earn, and invest the surplus; consumer debt is a ball and chain.
To free up cash, shrink your must-haves; I spent half my income on buying freedom, which never felt like deprivation because freedom was the thing I wanted most.
I once spent for self-esteem—a big TV on payday, then sold it a week later to eat; that validation loop is real.
And the crowd you’re trying to impress is thinking how they’d look in the Ferrari, not how you look in it.
A friend with forty thousand in debt asked what to do.
Pay minimums on all debts and attack the highest interest first; it’s tough, but the discipline you build becomes the same muscle that makes you wealthy.
As a teen, I tried to out-earn my debt and ‘fix it later’—a bad bet that happened to work out.
Bad choices sometimes win, but they’re still bad choices; Bitcoin is a speculation, not a productive investment, and no one has a crystal ball for the next ten years.
A well-known friend asked whether to pay down the mortgage or invest, and whether stocks are safe with AI reshaping everything.
If your mortgage rate is very low, keep it; if it’s high, paying it off locks in a guaranteed return, and in the middle choose based on what helps you sleep. Interest is the price of borrowed money, mortgages front-load interest, and rates float with inflation and Fed policy, so shop around but don’t try to time the perfect rate.
Stocks are wildly volatile in the short run and remarkably reliable over decades; never invest money you’ll need soon, and be ready to keep buying through downturns.
I sold my first stock when it dipped because I needed the cash and panicked; no one taught me the emotional side.
Only invest long-term money; the less you tinker, the better compounding works, which is why Jack Bogle said to ignore statements and Charlie Munger warned not to block compounding—men especially overtrade and underperform because of it.
Compounding looks boring for years, then it hockey sticks; the four percent guideline says if you can live on four percent of your portfolio, you’re functionally independent, but people often don’t trust the math because the surge feels unreal.
I used to justify reckless spending as ‘enjoyment while young,’ and our brains treat future selves like strangers.
I saved for present-me, not seventy-five-year-old me; having five thousand in my twenties let me negotiate time off to backpack because FU money gives leverage long before full independence.
Put five hundred a month into an eight percent compounding engine and in thirty-five years you’re near a millionaire; if parents start early, the effect is wild.
That’s growth, not just interest, and starting early is everything; if your kid earns income, funding a Roth IRA for them can grow tax-free for decades.
Can people really save fifty percent on a modest income?
It’s possible but hard, and it’s a values choice; time will pass either way, and choosing freedom now means everything feels free later.
Walk me through the tax-advantaged buckets.
Use 401k or 403b plans and IRAs to invest pre-tax and capture any employer match; remember it’s tax deferral, not tax-free, with penalties for early withdrawals and required distributions later, and it usually pays because your retirement tax bracket tends to be lower.
Given all that, where should the average person invest?
A total stock market index fund like VTSAX holds thousands of U.S. companies, is cap-weighted, and self-cleans as winners rise and laggards fade—think Sears giving way to Walmart and then Amazon without you lifting a finger.
The Nasdaq 100 has crushed it for a decade and AI makes tech look unstoppable; should we tilt hard to tech?
It’s a reasonable speculation but sector leadership rotates; I stick with the total market so I benefit if tech keeps leading and I’m covered if something else takes over.
Explain your beer-and-foam analogy.
Beer is a company’s real operating value and foam is speculation and emotion; Tesla has lots of foam, and Buffett and Graham sought businesses where you pay for beer, not foam, which takes discipline and valuation skill.
In March 2020, prices plunged then snapped back; timing looked easy in hindsight, but most people panic-sold.
The whole market dipped and recovered; stay invested, add if you can, and ignore anyone selling trading ‘secrets’—that’s gambling in the foam, not owning the beer.
Do I need a financial advisor?
By the time you can pick a truly good one, you likely know enough to invest simply yourself, but if you hire, learn exactly how they’re paid because assets-under-management fees can conflict with advice like paying off a mortgage.
What does your own allocation look like?
Roughly eighty percent in a total stock market index, about fifteen percent in a total bond market fund, and around five percent in cash-like reserves; bonds smooth the ride short term, stocks win over the long term, and my mix is aggressive for my age.
I tossed a real‑world prompt at AI: how does someone on fifty thousand build freedom? It came back with live beneath your means, keep saving, and steadily buy broad, low‑cost index funds so compounding does the heavy lifting—and when I asked how to earn more, it pushed in demand skills, career steps, side income, and cash‑flowing assets, which makes you ask what actually counts in an AI era.
Coding used to be the obvious answer, but AI is changing that, while the timeless core still holds—avoid debt, spend less than you make, and invest the surplus—then let mistakes teach you faster than comfort ever will.
I bailed on university after one lecture, learned social media by building and failing, and that failure made me valuable enough to consult globally, which led to Social Chain and changed my life; my go‑to advice now is to work at a startup so you sit close to the founder and the failures, because that proximity compounds your learning.
Investors often prefer founders with a scar or two, and the stories in Pathfinders prove you can reach financial independence from modest starts; my friend Tom went through divorces, foreclosure, and bankruptcy and still built a happy life, while a finance friend with giant paychecks remained broke under lifestyle pressure, which is why high income can trap you into keeping up rather than buying freedom.
Those goalposts keep moving—from the neighbors to someone else’s yacht—and divorce can be the real wrecking ball; a friend worth hundreds of millions has spent years funding both sides’ lawyers, fighting inflated valuations, liquidating long‑held stock with brutal taxes, and carrying loans against shares, and the stress alone is a reminder we talk too little about how divorce can wipe you out.
Choose your spouse with eyes open to money, because wealth can make you a target and more money doesn’t guarantee more happiness.
There’s nuance—she raised the kids while he built the business—so decide together before you marry whether a judge will decide or a prenup will, and yes, I’m likely heading toward marriage myself.
I’ve been married forty four years, and I once thought we never discussed money before the wedding until my wife reminded me I told her on our first date to save fifty percent of her income, so alignment mattered from day one.
At seventy five, what do you regret most?
Regret is tricky because the counterfactual is a guess, but two moments stay with me: as a kid I dismissed the jigsaw my dad proudly gave me and saw the hurt on his face, and the night before he died I brushed off his truth that he was about to go instead of meeting him in that conversation; I lacked the maturity to see the choice, and while I give myself grace, I still wish I had been there with him.
Our tradition: what do you think is true that you haven’t validated?
I’m almost certain there’s no afterlife, yet I’m deeply curious about death and open to being surprised when the time comes, just not in a hurry to find out.
So what actually matters for happiness at your age?
Ultimately nothing carries cosmic meaning—we’re specks across vast time—so treat people well and make the most of the only ride you get, even if the universe isn’t assigning a point to it.
I played a piece by Lucas Jones that landed perfectly with that theme.
In a train‑car talk with God, he hears that the real rules are written on our hearts—be kind, do no harm—and that heaven isn’t a prize later but the life you create now, with life as the cloud and death as the rain.
Thank you for the work you’ve put into The Simple Path to Wealth, Pathfinders, and your short book on real estate; links are below, and where else should people find you?
My blog at jlcollinsnh dot com has the evergreen source material for the books, and the real estate book is a cautionary laugh at my expense.
Thank you for being here—and for that soothing voice everyone’s going to mention—this was a joy.