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The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Eye-Opening Conversation on Marriage & Love You Will Ever Hear (From #1 Divorce Lawyer)

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PodcastThe Mel Robbins Podcast
Publisher/creatorSiriusXM Podcasts
Published
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About this episode

Mel calls today’s episode one of the most moving, meaningful, and transformational conversations ever to happen on the podcast. She says it is THE most important relationship advice that she has ever heard and you will ever hear. Today’s guest, James Sexton, is a world-renowned authority on relationships, but coming from a perspective you may not expect. He’s the author of the bestselling book How to Stay in Love. But he’s also one of the top divorce attorneys in the world, which means for decades he's had a front-row seat to what makes marriages thrive – and the reason why marriages fall apart. He’s going to tell you most breakups don’t happen because of something catastrophic. They result from all the little mistakes over time that everyone misses. Today, he’ll teach you what those mistakes are and convince you that a few small changes are the secret to creating a lasting and loving relationship. And unlike most relationship advice you’ll hear, his advice isn’t theoretical. It’s built on what he’s seen thousands of couples do when it’s working… and when it’s not. You’ll learn: -How you can save (or strengthen) any marriage in 10 minutes a week -The #1 thing that leads to infidelity (it’s not what you think) and how to avoid it -How to tell if your marriage is over -The reason relationships and marriages fail -How to argue in a productive way -How to tell if you’re in the wrong relationship -The habits of all successful relationships If you’re single, this is what sets the foundation for a healthy relationship. If you’re in a relationship, this is what allows it to deepen, strengthen, and evolve with you. If you’re suffering from a breakup or a divorce, this will not only make you believe in love again, but it will also give you the road map to create it. This is one of the most important conversations that has been had on this podcast to date. Mel cannot wait for you and everybody that you love or have loved to experience it. For more resources related to today’s episode, click here for the podcast episode page. If you liked the episode, check out this one next with Mel and her husband Chris: How To Create Better Relationships: 6 Surprising Lessons From 28 Years Of Marriage Connect with Mel: Order Mel’s new product, Pure Genius Protein Get Mel’s newsletter, packed with tools, coaching, and inspiration. Get Mel’s #1 bestselling book, The Let Them Theory Watch the episodes on YouTube Follow Mel on Instagram The Mel Robbins Podcast Instagram Mel's TikTok Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes ad-free Disclaimer Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Episode summary

It’s your friend Mel—welcome in. You know that jolt you feel after a funeral or a wedding, when life suddenly feels urgent and precious? That’s the energy I want you to feel today. James Sexton is here, a world‑class divorce attorney who sees where love breaks, and he’s going to show us simple habits that keep it strong. If I take what you teach and really live it, how could my relationship change?

I’ve spent over twenty‑five years in the trenches hearing the unfiltered truth, and that vantage point makes me practical. You’ll leave with small, provable routines that cost nothing and help you maintain connection the way you’d maintain fitness—before it falls apart.

That lands. It’s easy to drift without noticing the early mistakes that eventually put you in a lawyer’s office.

Coasting can feel fine until you hit bottom. We treat love like a permanent gift instead of a loan that needs tending. The goal I come back to is simple and bold: you’re my favorite person—and we help each other become our most honest selves.

What do you wish couples understood before they marry?

Two opposite traps: believing marriage will fix someone, and believing marriage freezes the good times forever. People, bodies, goals, and pressures change; the work is learning how to change together.

So what’s a better question to ask early, knowing change is coming?

Ask, what little things keep us connected? Ten minutes a week can change everything. Try this: tell me three things I did that made you feel loved, and three places I missed the mark. If you’re brave, ask what turned you on this week. Listen without getting defensive, because the answers will surprise you.

I felt that this week—my husband sent photos of our dogs chasing him on a ski day. It was the mid‑day thought of me that made me feel loved.

Exactly—beneath the act is the meaning: I wanted to share this with you. Small, specific gestures beat grand productions. Even dishes aren’t about plates; they’re about feeling considered. Make a weekly walk‑and‑talk or email routine and keep naming what lands.

So the questions are, three ways I made you feel loved, and three places I missed.

And add three ways you made me feel loved. Lead with what works. Criticism rarely unlocks connection.

What everyday mistakes actually lead to divorce?

Disconnection is the root, and it breeds infidelity, financial deceit, and lies. Affairs often start because people miss how they felt in the beginning—seen, wanted, interesting—not because they stopped loving their spouse.

And the person who was cheated on usually misses that feeling too.

Right, and there were last‑clear‑chances to say, my eye is wandering and I don’t want it to. Marriage is a big job description we hand one person; the soulmate myth makes it worse by promising ease instead of practice.

You call social media an infidelity machine. Why?

It’s the perfect storm: innocent cover for being online, private DMs that feel like a quiet booth, and everyone’s highlight reel meeting your bored scroll. That mix erodes boundaries fast.

What ground rules actually help?

Start with yourself. Would I follow, text, or flirt this way if my partner were beside me? Notice when the answer is no, then choose what you want most over what you want now.

Let’s say we’re in a downward spiral. What should we do first?

Reverse it with tiny, steady signals. Leave a kind note. Text a song from your early days with a line about why it reminded you of them. Write ten things you love about them. If they ask why you’re doing this, say, I think it and don’t say it enough. It’s free and it works both ways—reminds them and you.

What if I can’t think of ten, or they don’t respond in kind?

If you truly can’t list ten things you love, therapy and hard questions may point to an ending. As for reciprocity, be brave and try; if repeated, sincere efforts are refused, you have clarity. Some marriages should end, and many people become better partners and parents after a mature split.

What did your own divorce teach you?

We married young; I learned I’m a great ex‑husband and father, not a great husband. Cooperative co‑parenting can be beautiful, and we should normalize prenups and civil divorces. Most cases aren’t high conflict; one irrational leg on the four‑legged table can still knock it over.

How do you spot trouble early?

Know your baseline—how you touched, talked, and made time—then notice unchosen drift. Early tells are sighs, eye‑rolls, subtle contempt, and scrolling while your partner speaks. Marriage is a job you chose; act like you want to be good at it.

In the heat of an argument, how do we defuse it?

Agree in advance on a phrase that pauses the fight and a time you’ll resume. Keep it a fair fight and never weaponize the tender truths your partner shared; that’s the nuclear code of the relationship—you only get to push it once.

The way you define love using dogs and time really hit me.

I’d never trade an old dog for a shiny puppy, and I wouldn’t sell thirty days of time with them for any money. Love is valuing finite time together above everything; as a hospice volunteer, I see that’s what matters.

Your letter‑writing practice moved me.

Write your partner a real letter—gratitude, hurts, desires, a fond memory—even if you never send it. I wrote to my late mother, then wrote back from her with what I needed to hear; it proved the wisdom I sought was already inside me. Give each other grace; most of us barely understand ourselves.

If you had to save a marriage with one thing, what is it?

Attention. Step out of autopilot and notice the water you’re swimming in—what’s true in you, and what’s true in them.

How do we reframe the story when we’re hurt?

You can cast your partner as villain or human under strain; both stories are available. Judge the whole arc, not one worst or best moment.

Holding the lens of you’re my favorite person feels hard when we’re scared.

It’s scary to love and to be fully known. Many never feel loved because they never risk that level of truth.

You also challenge tradition—like sleeping in separate beds—and people react.

I’m not saying you’re wrong; I’m saying design what works for you. Share your real rules with each other, ignore the scoreboard, and measure sex and sleep by mutual satisfaction, not someone else’s standard.

We move through a world of symbols, where a suit at court or a wedding says I take this seriously, but the signal only matters if our behavior carries the meaning.

What landed for me is that a bed, a ring, or years together are just markers; real connection is showing up and treating your partner like your favorite person.

If you stripped away the ring and the paperwork, the happiest couples I know would still choose each other because life is better side by side, and that’s worth fighting for.

Marriage can feel like a long-odds bet with an incredible prize, and you raise the odds with simple daily care you already know how to do, not with grand gestures or anything to buy.

It really boils down to this: pay attention, and let them know they’re your favorite person.

I’m so grateful for this, and those two moves will deepen things with Chris because relationships improve through steady reps.

What moves you is the love you feel and receive, and learning to offer that same warmth to yourself is a superpower we help each other unlock, even as we all lose the plot sometimes.

Your prompt to ask what changed helped me see that our rough patch held unprocessed grief after Chris’s dad died nineteen years ago, and I missed how much that shifted him.

Grief can sneak up even on those who know its terrain, and it reminds us everything is impermanent; when you pay attention, you see both our capacity for anger and our capacity for beauty, so I try to lean toward the good and give grace to the fool in us.

James, thank you for showing us what to notice so we can tap the full possibility of love, and to everyone listening, please share this with your favorite person because we all deserve better relationships.

As your friend, I love you, I believe in you, and I know you can create a better life. Please subscribe to help us reach fifty percent subscribers, and a quick legal note, this show is for education and entertainment and is not a substitute for professional advice.

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