#2411 - Gavin de Becker

Great to see you. You came loaded with notes, so let’s stop chatting outside and get it all on the mics.

I’m coming at this as a criminologist, not a physician, and I want to start with Project Gladio—post–World War Two stay-behind networks that, according to official records, carried out bombings and assassinations in allied countries to steer politics rightward; it ran into 1990, was denied, then exposed, and it’s a stark lesson in what happens when power operates without oversight.

The Smith–Mundt changes under Obama made it legal to run propaganda at home, so the government can lie to us and call it national security.

Project Mockingbird showed how media can be steered, and now information is borderless; I saw a Saudi operation on Twitter in 2018 where bots and thousands of paid users pushed narratives, and during COVID we watched big-box stores stay open while churches, beaches, and shows were shut, which fractured community because division is power.

Do you think they seized COVID as an opportunity to divide, or did they just do performative public safety because they felt they had to act?

I look at results, not motives: almost every Western country confined citizens, shuttered businesses, and ran an information playbook mapped out in Event 201, which was about controlling messaging more than health, and you do not need a smoky back room when incentives pull institutions toward control because tyranny is the historical default.

For regular people with jobs and kids, this is a bottomless hole; you start with MKUltra or JFK and then hit AIDS and AZT, and you realize profit often trumped people—I had Peter Duesberg on and got blasted.

AZT recreated the very symptoms people died from, keeping numbers high; watch House of Numbers, and know that definitions and tests shifted by region and era while factors like heavy antibiotic use and poppers mattered too—I even saw a fake decoy upload of that film meant to confuse people.

The pushback was intense, but the questions were reasonable—why life-long chemo for a virus, why so little heterosexual spread, and why no open debate before the internet?

A Romanian adoptee labeled HIV positive was put on AZT, got sicker, then improved off it; Kary Mullis warned about misusing PCR, and early cases of teen myocarditis deaths following COVID shots should have led the news, but the same internet that helps us is also a control grid.

At least the internet let me find old pieces like the Spin article and dig into books, and it made obvious how grants and licensing enforce consensus while respected scientists get deplatformed.

See An Inconvenient Study about vaccinated versus unvaccinated kids—people were too scared to publish; that fear echoes how a private body, the Institute of Medicine, ran delay-and-deny cycles on Agent Orange before Admiral Zumwalt blew the whistle.

There’s also that timing spike where babies die soon after getting multiple shots.

I think many SIDS cases follow multi-shot appointments, but the larger point is the playbook: stall, muddy, and declare “inconclusive,” like Johnson and Johnson talc where regulators took decades while people were harmed; with Gulf War syndrome and squalene, we should study the harmed the way we reconstruct a plane crash.

Pharma always says the medicine saves more lives than the rare cases it harms.

Do real risk-benefit by disease and by product: tetanus is incredibly rare here and can be handled at the time of injury, polio is mostly symptom-free and recent paralysis is largely vaccine-derived, mumps outbreaks often hit the vaccinated, and COVID shots give kids no upside while adding myocarditis risk as we watched athlete collapses rise—vaccines are not one thing and parents should evaluate each one.

DDT poisoning likely mimicked polio, even in animals, and FDR’s paralysis might have been something else.

Early autism clusters overlapped with heavy mercury exposure, modern shots carry animal and human proteins with chemicals, adjuvants like aluminum are designed to irritate the immune system, simian virus contamination happened, and ethyl mercury clears blood but can deposit in the brain.

Most doctors read off agency sites; real shared decision-making would give parents a say.

I’m not against every vaccine—BCG looks helpful yet we do not use it—and parents already make serious safety calls, but pediatrics is incentivized around the schedule and almost no one can rattle off the ingredients.

The shaming during COVID was heavy; I nearly took J and J, then paused after the pull and two acquaintances had strokes, my family’s cases were mild, I did vitamins and sun, and media lied about ivermectin while pharmacies restricted it to preserve the emergency authorization.

That’s why I wrote a book with QR codes to source every claim so people can hand it to family and ask for evidence rather than slogans.

They flipped long-held principles—vaccinating in a pandemic, dismissing natural immunity, then blaming the unvaccinated for variants.

Turning the unvaccinated into pariahs echoed dark history; academics once gave pseudo-scientific cover to hate, the Wannsee meeting showed how suits normalize atrocity, and in modern drug cases internal emails reveal profit over safety.

So why trust companies with records like that?

From Pfizer and Johnson and Johnson to Glaxo, Merck, and Eli Lilly, you see fines, fraud, and whistleblowers describing rigged tests and deadly side effects while revenues dwarf penalties, and vaccines add a liability shield on top.

They even argued for immunity on the grounds you cannot guarantee both full safety and full effectiveness.

Adjuvants exist to provoke reaction, which is why metals stuck around, the ethyl versus methyl framing sidesteps brain burden, and doctors lean on CDC pages, so ask hard questions in person.

You also brought up population control.

The Kissinger memo made reducing fertility abroad an explicit policy via medicalized birth control, cash for vasectomies, and covert campaigns; there were tetanus drives with HCG aimed at women, Gates talks about vaccines and population, COVID shots temporarily lowered sperm counts while miscarriage signals rose, and I think the planet is large enough—the real issue is distribution even though many elites believe fewer people is the goal.

Poor nations need reliable energy and infrastructure, but nuclear brings proliferation risks, so policies that freeze development while posing as help are absolutely on the table.

Leaked transcripts show the Institute of Medicine set the verdict in the first hour to never link vaccines and autism, then spent months wordsmithing to muddy causality and finally urged no more studies—that’s where the word “debunked” most people repeat actually comes from.

Give me something optimistic to end on… and we’ll pick it up there.

You asked if big events are organic or steered; I’ve come to think most large-scale responses, like what we lived through with COVID policy, don’t just happen by accident, and I’m even open to the idea of deliberate release given what we know about biowarfare history.

People told me Lyme has ancient roots, but Plum Island’s bioweapons work with ticks shows the capability to spread illness; defending the idea that it’s always been everywhere ignores how widespread and debilitating it became.

I left upstate New York after my family and I got Lyme; it changed how I looked at a simple walk in the woods.

A friend had it bad—he and his kid ended up with facial paralysis before doctors took it seriously and used heavy antibiotics; it wrecked his health for a long stretch.

Look at polio: the worst outbreak was in New York while funders backed research that made the virus more dangerous; even after objections, gain-of-function was offshored as if making pathogens worse could somehow protect us.

And they didn’t even have a reliable cure waiting.

The pitch was bioweapons plus a vaccine that would shield our troops—sci‑fi bravado sold as strategy, with people like Peter Daszak out front.

How long do you think they were doing that kind of gain‑of‑function work before the 2014 pause?

Funding always chases weapons, from nuclear to bio; labs are everywhere, including in Boston and dozens in Ukraine, and then we act shocked when adversaries see that as a threat.

Take Zelensky: a comedian with no political background starred in a show about an everyman becoming president; an oligarch boosted the show and his profile, he formed a party with the same title, skipped debates, got wall‑to‑wall favorable coverage, had foreign advisers embedded, landslided, then under war declared martial law and suspended elections—he was built for the role.

People are burned out by the toll of that war, and the promises to end it quickly never matched reality; they’re drafting men in their sixties now.

Wars of that scale aren’t spontaneous—narratives are engineered, resources flow, and leaders don’t just wake up and roll tanks without a long runway.

Russian troops were told it’d be quick and they’d be greeted; they even packed dress uniforms for a short victory.

We heard the same thing in Iraq—promise of a fast welcome, then reality hits.

So what’s the core driver in Ukraine to you?

All war is about power, control, and money; empires consolidate until a few blocs remain, and today it’s fought electronically with proxies, satellites, signals, and drones—the United States is effectively in the fight while Ukrainians are the ones in the grinder.

Large groups diffuse responsibility, which is how institutions and corporations justify almost anything.

Despite the ugliness, COVID pushed me to be grateful for what matters—I traveled with my kids, lost some friendships, but found deeper ones with people willing to take risks and speak plainly, including you.

We keep talking because legacy outlets won’t; if this were truly front‑page news, you’d see it in the big papers and on the nightly shows.

Those outlets are captured, and while they ignored suffering, people died alone because families were kept from hospital rooms; it was a dark year, and I’ve had to accept that this is how the system behaves.

It forced me out of a naive phase; by my fifties I already didn’t trust institutions, but I never imagined the scale of deception and how profit would twist medical decisions.

Even with older vaccines, the risk lists are huge; during monkeypox they pushed the smallpox shot, tried to gin up fear twice, even rebranded it as M‑pox, but most people didn’t buy it.

It mostly hit a specific high‑risk group, yet they tried to sell it as the next national wave.

Oddly, sales of 1984 spiked, which means people were awake; my book Forbidden Facts is meant to sharpen skepticism so we resist the next push, and it’s encouraging that almost no parents went for shots down to six months even before new leadership halted that.

School rules are still a tangle—many force full schedules unless families qualify for exemptions.

I moved my company’s headquarters to San Antonio during COVID; no mandates, a sane bureaucracy, and we screen applicants with D‑dimer and troponin because a young candidate collapsed on a run and it woke us up—out of the first fifty‑four fit, nonsmoking men, seventeen got sent to cardiologists.

Most had no clue anything might be wrong, right?

Some were fine and some weren’t, which is why a cardiology workup mattered; a Yale emeritus epidemiologist, Harvey Risch, pushed us to do those markers instead of just waiting a couple of weeks after shots.

Troponin is a heart marker, and early on they used lab numbers during infection to claim myocarditis was more common from COVID than from shots; that framing was off.

Whatever the early spin, later data like the Cleveland Clinic’s pre‑ and post‑shot labs showed more people with clotting markers after vaccination, and the old refrain that the disease is always worse than the intervention didn’t hold up for many.

It’ll be interesting to see what gets done in the next four years.

A lot is happening under the radar: advisory groups moved to remove mercury from all vaccines, questionable mRNA projects were halted, recommendations shifted on fluoride and food issues, and you won’t hear it because corporate media loathes Robert F. Kennedy Jr., while pharma bankrolls their ad slots.

Coverage of him is overwhelmingly negative, which tells you plenty.

We’re thriving in Texas and hiring people who prize freedom; meanwhile, parts of California—San Francisco especially—feel like a slow‑motion collapse with empty storefronts and streets in crisis.

It got rough fast—people avoid going out, break‑ins are constant, businesses are dying.

Decline is what empires do, but cities don’t have to accept it; leadership can change—Rick Caruso stepping up again could reset Los Angeles, and a lot of people wish they had voted differently.

Well, Gavin, thank you very much.

Appreciate you too, man—thank you.