The Dark Subcultures of Online Politics - Joshua Citarella - #1032

I love what you do—it’s unique and beautifully made—so getting that praise from a top cinematic podcast is a real honor.

I’ll take it, style over substance and all; when you meet someone at a party, how do you explain your work?

I used to just say artist, now it’s artist and internet culture writer, and most people know me from my podcast Doom Scroll, which grew me from a small intellectual audience to a weekly six-figure crowd.

What’s the core of your research?

I followed Gen Z meme cultures starting in 2018 with a long essay on Politigram, tracing how teens slid from eco‑anarchy and primitivism into broader online politics and how those niche memes foreshadowed today’s media environment.

How do you know which ideas will break out versus fade?

I look for problems that don’t go away, like decades of declining mobility, which explains why young people would reject the status quo or embrace radical fixes.

You’ve said youth politics feels qualitatively different now; why?

We’ve left a long era of consensus on how to run advanced economies and entered a messy renegotiation, so the guardrails are off and new proposals are finally getting space.

What big shifts are you watching?

Right‑wing populism has pulled former labor constituencies in many countries, and the surprising part is how fast the right moved away from libertarian economics—something I was tracking when few under twenty‑five identified as libertarian at all.

How deep did your rabbit holes go?

I followed teens across platforms from mass‑reach memes into tiny discords sharing esoteric texts and even bomb manuals, mapping an Overton window that stretched from primitivism to transhumanism while legacy gatekeepers missed the signal.

Why are tweens so politically online compared to us?

They have unlimited access to information, they didn’t inherit the post‑Cold War certainty that liberal democracy is the end point, and they remix ideas with reckless irony, brute‑forcing hybrid ideologies to see what sticks.

I hear paleo and think steak; what do you mean by paleoconservative?

It’s a label reclaimed to distinguish from neoconservatism, and yes, cataloging micro‑ideologies turned politics into Pokémon collecting for some, which can replace real engagement.

Does the radicalization pipeline metaphor help or harm?

Beliefs and coalitions are fluid, so pipelines exist but get abused by media to smear mainstream shows as gateways to violence, which I think is wrong and ignores how much people can change.

Legacy media is now covering internet drama; is alt‑media still ‘alt’?

It’s bigger than mainstream in many cases, so the old labels flipped and newspapers chase what the internet already made important.

Do these online spaces affect real politics?

Yes—mutual aid groups formed out of discords during the pandemic, AFPAC emerged from streamer culture, and Destiny mobilized more canvassers in Georgia than the official party apparatus.

Why did Nick Fuentes become such a focal point?

He over‑indexed on a small platform, benefited from the post‑Charlottesville optics fight, and the Gaza war boosted dissident voices, with a winner‑take‑most dynamic pushing attention his way.

When you say memes, do you mean jokes or ideas?

I mean transmittable narratives—images, clips, or stories—that people use to build a worldview since data needs a story to become legible.

How much is trolling versus belief?

Irony has hardened into conviction for many, but comedy and art still let people test boundaries, and today’s overlapping feeds let the same post land as a joke to one audience and a dogma to another.

Are teens just blowing off steam?

A lot of it is bathroom‑wall scribbling, but journalists often missed the real shifts while overreacting to juvenile provocations.

Which ideas look ascendant now?

There’s a practical social‑democratic reboot trying to appeal broadly, while the right experiments with networked exit visions; that clash feels like the defining contest.

How dark does the left get at the fringe?

Eco‑extremism drifts into anti‑natalism and neo‑Malthusian answers that devalue people, and even the right now talks climate because they see future refugee flows.

The horseshoe is real—people meet in strange places; do you see that?

Totally—audiences like Breaking Points prove folks will hear left and right counter‑narratives, and voting splits like Trump in 2024 and Mamdani in 2025 show anti‑establishment instincts more than team loyalty.

So you’d build coalitions rather than shame people out of views?

Yes, persuasion wins big policies like single‑payer, and you need a very broad tent to pass anything meaningful.

Has the meme era changed how campaigns operate?

Targeted meme drives exist—Yang’s community ran coordinated kits—and the current administration posts with real fluency, which signals how far posting has moved toward power.

That Mamdani–Trump moment felt like the game dropped; why so civil?

Maybe it was mood or mutual respect—winners like winners—but it showed how quickly the performance can pause when both decide to keep it cool.

Young people can be intensely ideological and ineffective; is Greta an example, and do stunts help?

I respect commitment but oppose vandalizing public treasures, and I think loud gestures backfire; real power is votes and workplace leverage, not theater.

Why does today’s left struggle with men?

The elite media‑academic‑NGO bubble alienated them while union power collapsed and male‑heavy jobs were offshored, so many young men felt sneered at when they tried to organize and drifted elsewhere.

You tried the ‘become hyper‑masculine and you’ll turn right’ thesis on yourself?

I lifted, took the weird supplements, even tried the quirky stuff, and came out focused on arguing that social‑democratic models like the NHS are actually more competitive and cheaper per person than the American setup.

Agency sells, but even the right has moved from libertarian to populist; is that a tell?

It was a weak signal I tracked years ago that became a major trend, which is what my work tries to catch early.

Aesthetics like cottagecore or tradwife seem to lead; does style beat substance?

Style can carry near‑identical policy sets, and some politicians surf that, but I don’t think flair can cover for bad economics forever.

I’m curious how your health fight has shaped your view on policy and life.

Chronic illness humbled me, made me fiercely pro‑NHS, and taught me to value small wins and empathy because health frames everything you feel and think.

Doing this work wasn’t my original plan, so I’ve wrestled with self‑doubt and learned to trust proof‑of‑work and long conversations, and I think we must air uncomfortable topics—like men’s earnings or status hits—if we want a coalition that can win.

Purity spirals shrink movements until only one person remains, and I see far more ‘why I left the left’ arcs than the reverse because it doesn’t feel welcoming.

Extremes also fracture themselves into ever smaller in‑groups, and before long it’s three people in a chat denouncing everyone else; that’s no way to build power.

Joshua Citarella, you’re fantastic—sharp, original, and your show is excellent.