About this episode
Dr Jay Wiles is https://ohm.health's Chief Health & Performance Officer and HRV researcher. HRV is the new health flex, but is it lying to you? Everyone’s comparing HRV scores, but what does HRV really mean for your health? How do you raise it, and should you actually care if yours is lower than your friends'? Expect to learn what HRV actually measures and what it doesn’t, why everyone suddenly cares about HRV, how fast the vagal system responds to changes in HRV and how it adapts, why resonance breathing is different than slow breathing, what to improve first when optimizing HRV, the big picture takeaway you should look out for, for HRV and much more... Timestamps: (0:00) Why Should We Be Looking at HRV? (14:54) Why Everyone’s HRV is Different (19:56) Do Men and Women Have Different HRV? (28:44) State vs Trait: Understanding Nervous System Change (38:14) How Fast Your Nervous System Really Reacts (44:16) Can You Train Your Nervous System to Adapt Over Time? (53:08) Does Resonance Breathing Actually Work? (01:10:24) How Ohm is Rethinking Breathwork (01:19:31) Does Feeling Calm Mean You’re Regulated? (01:24:41) How to Reduce Physiological Stress (01:41:06) The Top Signs Your Resonance Breathing is Working (01:47:15) The Best Ways to Improve Your HRV (01:51:27) How Breath Connects the Mind and Nervous System (01:56:03) Why Sleep is the Most Important Factor (02:04:32) Is There a Limit to Improving HRV? (02:08:12) Where to Find Jay Sponsors: See discounts for all the products I use and recommend: https://chriswillx.com/deals Get 15% off your first order of my favourite Non-Alcoholic Brew at athleticbrewing.com/modernwisdom Get a free sample or 30% off a one-month supply of Timeline at https://timeline.com/modernwisdom30 Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period from Shopify at https://shopify.com/modernwisdom Get up to $350 off the Pod 5 at https://eightsleep.com/modernwisdom Extra Stuff: Get my free reading list of 100 books to read before you die: https://chriswillx.com/books Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic: https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom Episodes You Might Enjoy: #577 - David Goggins - This Is How To Master Your Life: lnkfi.re/SN-Goggins #712 - Dr Jordan Peterson - How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs: lnkfi.re/SN-Peterson #700 - Dr Andrew Huberman - The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain: lnkfi.re/SN-Huberman - Get In Touch: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Episode summary
HRV feels like the new cool kid everyone’s chasing—where did it come from, what does it actually do, and what does it measure?
Thanks to wearables, a lab tool is now in everyone’s hands; HRV is our best non‑invasive window into autonomic adaptation, resilience, and flexibility, reflecting how the sympathetic system mobilizes energy and the parasympathetic system conserves it—not as an on/off switch, but as a coordinated dance.
Why would the spacing between heartbeats reveal all that—why is it the canary?
Your heart isn’t a metronome; variability between beats shows the nervous system fine‑tuning to countless inputs, with inhales shortening intervals and exhales lengthening them, and when adaptation falters under load, that variability shrinks.
So is a number like 100 milliseconds just the swing between shortest and longest?
HRV isn’t a single metric—there are many ways to quantify it—and context over time matters more than any one reading.
Is high always good and low always bad?
It’s only meaningful relative to your baseline; stability across days is the goal, and I care more about day‑to‑day variation than chasing someone else’s big number.
Why do people’s HRVs differ so much?
Non‑modifiable factors include age‑related declines, genetics, and sex differences—women often show lower averages due to cycle‑related shifts—while modifiable factors include better cardiorespiratory fitness, managing chronic conditions, and reducing overall stress load so the system stays flexible.
What doesn’t HRV measure?
It’s not a direct stress gauge from a single datapoint; over time it reflects adaptability to stress, so don’t let one morning’s score drive your decisions.
It feels like we can measure HRV easily but don’t know how to influence it, which leaves people at the mercy of the number; what’s the difference between changing state and changing trait?
State change is an immediate shift, while trait change is the long‑term remodeling; slow breathing is a powerful lever for both, signaling safety in the moment and, with consistent practice, building a more resilient baseline much like training at a gym.
How fast does the body respond?
Vagal activation starts within seconds, and although the sympathetic system is fast, parasympathetic braking is even quicker, which makes breath the most accessible on‑demand tool.
Why does this sharpen mental acuity?
Your built‑in blood pressure control links heart and nerves; when it’s jumpy you get overshoots that feel like scattered focus, and training it smooths those dynamics so attention can lock onto the task instead of chasing perceived threats.
How long to create real trait change?
Breathing at your resonance rate—roughly four and a half to six and a half breaths per minute—aligns respiration, heart rhythm, and blood pressure reflexes, with session effects appearing by minutes six to twelve and trait shifts emerging after about four to twelve weeks of ten minutes most days.
What kind of changes are we talking about?
During sessions, low‑frequency power can jump dramatically, while at rest we see better reflex control and meaningful increases in high‑frequency power tied to vagal tone.
I’m not fully clear on low and high frequency—what are they?
Beyond simple time intervals, we decompose the signal into bands; slow breathing drives large low‑frequency oscillations, and over time training boosts high‑frequency power associated with resting parasympathetic activity.
People know breathwork—what makes resonance and biofeedback different?
Resonance breathing is uniquely well‑studied for long‑term change, whereas many popular protocols are great for state shifts but lack robust trait‑change evidence.
Why not get my resonance rate once and just follow a timer?
You could, but consistency is the bottleneck and precision matters; small deviations from your true rate can blunt gains, which is why guided, real‑time feedback helps.
Walk me through OM, because using it beat my straps and phone apps.
We wanted to remove friction and the phone; you hold a warm stone with a sensor while the lamp paces your breath, and our algorithm reads your live HRV response to set your exact inhale and exhale timing, then adapts mid‑session as your state shifts so precision—not effort—does the heavy lifting.
I’ve felt it speed up and slow down during longer sessions; if other breathwork makes me feel calm, does that feeling prove my system is truly regulated?
I don’t treat HRV biofeedback or resonance breathing like a chill-out button. Calm is a byproduct; I’m there to train precision so my nervous system performs when life gets messy, and doing it before bed can help sleep, but the mindset is still reps in the gym.
Should we just breathe at our resonance rate all day, like keeping a steady in-out pattern on loop?
Training makes the pattern show up when it’s needed, but the aim isn’t to pace every breath forever; it’s to build a system that auto-corrects under pressure.
If stress dysregulated someone from the top down, why go bottom up to fix it—how do breathing and HRV work with CBT or ACT?
Emotions run both ways, and physiology often fires first, which is why a veteran I treated froze around cars after combat—his body yelled danger before thoughts formed—so we trained regulation first with biofeedback, then layered cognitive work, even opening sessions with resonance and closing safely.
I’ve felt that body-first jolt too, from subtle relationship triggers to the night I snapped at staff before realizing I had norovirus, which shows how we invent stories to explain a feeling that started in the body; lassitude is that longer sick-state shaping behavior, and people even smooth their driving history after crashes.
What’s a realistic resonance-breathing plan that actually moves the needle?
For quick state shifts, a couple of minutes helps, but adaptations live in ten to twenty minutes in one sitting, four to six days a week, for eight to ten weeks, because bigger changes tend to appear around minutes eight to twelve; expect steadier emotions, better sleep, and improved recovery, and keep checking how you feel, not only what a wearable says.
How should high performers stack this with practice or game time, since not every sport wants a pre-game downshift?
Match it to their arousal pattern—anxious players may use it pre-competition to steady nerves, while low-energy athletes might skip it before and do a short session after to come back down.
If I want broad gains in HRV and nervous system health without a crazy routine, what simple stack should I run alongside hydration habits?
Pull two big levers—raise cardiorespiratory fitness with steady zone-two plus a little high intensity to improve VO2 max and resting heart rate, and do structured biofeedback sessions four times weekly—with mindfulness if you like—and keep fluids balanced rather than over- or under-doing electrolytes.
What should we do with our mind during sessions, and do we lose gains if we train while watching a movie?
Precision wins—if the breath is on rhythm, the baroreflex and respiratory sinus arrhythmia align regardless of intention—though focused attention and mindfulness stack extra benefits.
Let’s place sleep in this picture, and how your work with Absolute Rest fits.
Sleep is the base of the health pyramid and the clearest readout of trait-level regulation, which is why nighttime HRV matters; high-fidelity tools reveal low coupling, sympathetic fragmentation, and poor efficiency, and a pre-bed ten to fifteen minutes of resonance often lifts restorative power and reduces wake-ups over weeks, but don’t let a single daily HRV score drive every decision because context, multiple metrics, and more robust measures like VO2 max matter.
This feels like the leading edge of a real, evidence-based shift, and I’m glad you’ve put the hours in.
OM is still in dark mode but open for pre-order and shipping in August, and I’m grateful you helped put resonance breathing on people’s radar.
If you want reading ideas, I made a free list of a hundred impactful books with notes at chriswillx.com slash books.