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The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett

The Scientist Who Scans Fathers' Brains: Parenthood Shrinks Your Brain, And Drops Testosterone 25%!

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Original episode
PodcastThe Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Publisher/creatorDOAC
Published
Shortcast updated

About this episode

What actually happens to your brain, and how fast or slow do you age when you become a parent? Dr. Darby Saxbe reveals the surprising science of the "parental brain" and how fatherhood physically reshapes a man's mind, why dads lose grey matter, what really happens to testosterone, and why the "dad bod" might be nature's design.
Dr. Darby Saxbe is a professor of psychology and a leading researcher on the neuroscience of parenthood. She is the founder and director of the NEST (Neuroendocrinology of Social Ties) Lab at the University of Southern California, where her pioneering work studies how the transition to parenthood changes the brains, hormones and relationships of both mothers and fathers. Her research has reshaped how scientists understand fatherhood, men's mental health, and what it really takes to raise a child.
Chapters

00:00:00 Intro
00:02:13 Role Of Fathers In Parenting
00:06:10 What Happens To The Brain When You Become A Father?
00:09:09 Why Testosterone Drops When Men Become Fathers
00:11:22 Should Men Be Worried About Lower Testosterone?
00:15:39 What Fatherhood Can Change In A Man’s Personality
00:19:00 The Upsides And Downsides Of Parenting
00:21:30 What Happens When We Make Parents Fight?
00:23:48 Why The Birth Experience Can Shape Your Relationship
00:27:25 Are People Waiting For The Perfect Time To Have Kids?
00:30:44 Why Fewer People May Be Choosing Parenthood
00:35:12 Ads
00:37:34 Do Parents Actually Have Healthier Brains?
00:45:02 What Does Daycare Really Mean For Children?
00:47:17 Why Mothers Become The Default Parent
00:49:10 Maternal Gatekeeping And Weaponized Incompetence
00:52:04 What Really Happens To Relationships After A Baby
00:54:27 Why Fathers Can Experience Postpartum Depression
00:56:45 Can Your Personality Predict Whether You’ll Divorce?
01:00:51 Why Women’s Ovulation May Be Harder To Detect
01:03:06 How Can You Increase Your Chances Of Conceiving?
01:04:03 What Every New Father Needs To Know
01:04:51 Ads
01:05:51 How Should Parents Divide Baby Care?
01:07:54 What Couples Should Do Before Having Kids
01:13:26 How To Protect Your Relationship After Having Children
01:15:24 Is The Dad Bod More Attractive?
01:18:36 What Does Your Childhood Teach You About Parenting?
01:20:30 How Divorce Can Affect Children
01:20:47 Are Humans Really Meant To Be Monogamous?
01:22:09 What Are The Biggest Concerns About Modern Parenthood?
01:23:54 What Systemic Change Could Transform Parenting?

She explains:
◼ Why a father's brain physically shrinks when you become a dad
◼ Why testosterone drops in new fathers
◼ Why the "dad bod" may signal a more attentive hands-on father
◼ Why men experience postpartum depression
◼ Why raising a child was never meant to be done by two people alone
Follow Dr. Darby Saxbe:
X: https://x.com/darbysaxbe
NEST Lab: https://www.nestlab.ca
Her research: https://dornsife.usc.edu/nestlab/
Her book ‘Dad Brain: The New Science of Fatherhood and How It Shapes Men's Lives: https://a.co/d/03Qhspxt
Join her US based ‘Daddy Stroller Social Club’: https://daddystrollersocialclub.com
The Diary Of A CEO:
◼ Join DOAC circle here - https://doaccircle.com/
◼ Shop The Diary Of A CEO collection: https://thediary.com/collections/shop (https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/5IB1H6E)
◼ Get email updates - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/5IB1H6E
◼ Follow Steven - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/AGU9QP4
Sponsors:
Shopify - https://shopify.com/bartlett
Linkedin Talent Solutions - http://linkedin.com/DOAC
Pipedrive - https://pipedrive.com/CEO

Episode summary

This AI-generated Shortcast summary may omit nuance. Use the original episode when context or exact wording matters.

Dr. Darby Saxbe, men’s brains get smaller when they become fathers. I’m hoping to be a dad next year, so explain this beside the plastic brain without making me panic.

New fathers, like mothers, show gray-matter volume declines, especially in networks for reading feelings, intentions, and infant faces. Moms show broader hormone-linked changes; dads’ cortical changes seem especially responsive to experience and hands-on care.

But some dads are hands-on from day one, while elsewhere holding a baby is treated as unmanly. Fathers aren’t optional, are they?

Fathers are enormously important. Their caregiving is facultative: variable across culture and circumstance, but highly useful. When dads are needed, even as primary carers, they can step up tremendously; brains calibrate to children’s needs.

“Shrinking” still sounds like losing empathy. If I’m better at understanding a child, shouldn’t my brain grow?

It is not a deficit or forgetful “mommy brain.” Think trimming inefficient routes and strengthening faster ones. Stronger prenatal bonds, enjoyment, and hands-on care predicted greater change: intensive social practice, not less empathy.

Then testosterone: if involved dads lose roughly a quarter, are we sacrificing the gym, ambition, and general drive?

Testosterone does not simply equal winning. More feeding, changing, and nighttime care often predicts a larger drop, which can rebound as children grow. Very low levels can accompany depression; higher levels link to stress, poorer relationship satisfaction, and aggression. Aim for flexibility, not a number.

My brother once chased the highest-paying job; now his three children are plainly first. From outside, parenthood looks like lost sleep and anxiety, with a massive upside you trust is there.

Fathers I interviewed described that reorganization of purpose. Parenting is hard, isolating, expensive, and wrinkle-producing, but there is discovery, late-night snuggling, and love larger than yourself. Strong marriages and warm child relationships predict later well-being better than wealth or body-fat optimization.

Your lab took blood, saliva, hair, dad-brain scans, then made couples argue on camera. How do I avoid volunteering for that?

Partners discussed shared hot-button issues for fifteen minutes. Hostile prenatal conflict predicted more medically complicated, more stressful births—not because one argument ruins anything, but because criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and escalation matter. Validation—“I understand; I’m with you”—takes fuel from fury.

My fiancée and I see hectic schedules and no sensible time. But I started this show with no time; you make room. Are people waiting for perfection?

My adviser said there is no perfect moment; you make it work. Security matters, and not everyone can or should parent. But humans evolved as cooperative breeders. Leave, childcare, job protection, and community support make parenthood possible rather than privately impossible.

Fertility numbers are startling. How do we make care valuable rather than a terrible lifestyle choice?

Talk honestly about meaning and raise care’s status, including men as skilled caregivers. Parenting can be taxing now yet fulfilling later. Two or three children are linked with younger-looking brains in later life: perhaps social-cognition Sudoku, plus dads’ vigorous play.

That’s me with my nieces and nephews: hoisting them about until I’m sure I’ll injure myself. Is bonding and oxytocin part of it?

We are built to attach. Lifting, spinning, and rough-and-tumble play linked to higher oxytocin in fathers. Kids test fear, then feel relief when caught. Settling tantrums and responding sensitively also build skills for work, partnership, and relationships.

Early parenting can become mum as authority and dad as bumbling assistant, despite dad running complicated projects at work. What do couples do?

Maternal gatekeeping and weaponized incompetence create a nasty loop: one takes over, the other withdraws, nobody feels respected. Before birth, decide care, boundaries, values, and time off. More “we” thinking and responsibility predicted happier relationships after birth.

Relationship satisfaction commonly drops after a baby: sleep, recovery, sex changes, and a tiny person demanding everything. Forewarned is forearmed, not pretending good relationships never fight.

Exactly. Some couples decline; others grow closer after doing extraordinarily difficult things together. New dads can have depression too. Hormones, sleep, identity, work, old wounds, loneliness, and conflict can create a real perinatal mental-health storm.

Give me the prospective-dad version: how do I prepare without making fatherhood another insane optimization project?

Use pregnancy to strengthen communication, plan care, and build support beyond your partner: friends, family, neighbours, other parents. Solidify sleep routines beforehand—sleep will still get smashed. Bond through every diaper change. Give yourselves grace: the intense phase is temporary and valuable.

That’s the message: don’t wait to be born brilliant. Show up, do the reps, protect the relationship, build the village. And America’s lack of universal paid leave is bonkers—let’s get hands-on dads into positions to fix it.

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