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About this episode
United States District Judge Roy K. Altman joins Ravin Gandhi and Al Goldstein for a wide-ranging conversation about immigration, American exceptionalism, the legal system, Israel, antisemitism, and why he remains extraordinarily optimistic about America.
Born in Venezuela, Altman came to the United States as a child speaking Spanish and Hebrew but no English. Decades later, after becoming a U.S. citizen, a Division I athlete at Columbia, a Yale Law School graduate, a decorated federal prosecutor, and one of the youngest federal judges in the country, he now has the privilege of swearing in new American citizens himself.
Altman explains why playing high-level sports helped prepare him for the pressure of the courtroom, why juries of ordinary Americans can be remarkably good at finding the truth, and why lifetime tenure for federal judges may actually protect judicial independence rather than undermine it. He also explains a principle of judging that many Americans misunderstand: a judge's job isn't necessarily to reach the outcome he thinks is morally "right"—it's to follow the law.
The conversation then turns to Altman's new book, Israel on Trial, in which he applies the tools of a courtroom—evidence, history, standards of proof, and logic—to some of the most serious accusations made against Israel. Altman discusses the genocide allegation, the distinction between criticism of Israeli government policy and anti-Zionism, and why he believes facts can still change people's minds.
Altman also explains why he is bullish on the emerging relationship between Israel and India and why, despite the pessimism dominating much of American culture, he believes the American Dream remains very much alive.
Finally, Ravin and Al try unsuccessfully to convince Judge Altman that his future belongs in elected office.
In this episode:
• Why Altman's immigrant parents took their children to Civil War battlefields
• Going from speaking no English to becoming a federal judge
• What Division I football teaches that elite schools can't
• Why 12 ordinary jurors can be better at finding truth than experts
• The case for lifetime judicial appointments
• Whether America's legal system encourages too many lawsuits
• Why judges sometimes must enforce laws they personally disagree with
• Putting Israel "on trial" using evidence rather than ideology
• Altman's argument against the genocide accusation
• Criticism of Israel vs. antisemitism and anti-Zionism
• Why the India–Israel relationship could become increasingly important
• Why Altman remains optimistic about young Americans
• Is the American Dream still alive?
• And: Will Judge Roy Altman ever run for office?
This is a conversation about what America asks of its citizens—and what can happen when immigrants embrace the opportunity to contribute, compete, serve, and give something back to the country that gave them a chance.
Disclaimer: The Forged in America podcast features personal stories, experiences, and opinions from hosts Al Goldstein and Ravin Gandhi. This content is for informational and entertainment purposes only and is not investment advice, financial advice, solicitation of investments, or any form of professional recommendation.We strive for accuracy, but mistakes can happen and are unintentional. Nothing discussed should be relied upon for making financial, business, or personal decisions. Always consult qualified professionals before acting on anything you hear.Past performance or results mentioned do not guarantee future outcomes. Listeners are responsible for their own choices.
Episode summary
This AI-generated Shortcast summary may omit nuance. Use the original episode when context or exact wording matters.
My family drove a Toyota Previa, basically a buffalo on wheels, through Southern Civil War sites. At Missionary Ridge, I saw beautiful snow; my dad reminded me that people died so enslaved people could be free. I felt I owed public service to the country that gave my family everything.
That is exactly the stuff I want injected into my veins. Judge Roy Altman came from Venezuela, became a young federal judge after Columbia athletics, Yale Law, and prosecution work, and brings a courtroom framework to Israel in Israel on Trial.
My dad and I argue over whether he pushed me or I pushed him. But my parents taught me America let us become anything if we worked hard and respected people. On my first school day, I tried Spanish and Hebrew for a crayon; my mom told me I needed English. Now I swear in new citizens, the one federal proceeding where everybody leaves happy.
What did Division One football and baseball give you that law school could not?
Sports are the foundation floors before anything taller gets built. In Miami heat, with wet pads and blood in your nose, a quarterback cannot show fear in the huddle. I drew on that during exhausting trials, when court ran all day and preparation went deep into the night.
With your abilities, why choose work that relentless?
After October Seventh, I still do my judicial job, then often fly out for talks and get home to put my kids to bed before returning to sentencings. You go deep for what matters. Freedom asks devotion, not just gratitude.
Why should twelve ordinary people find truth better than highly educated people arguing online?
We evolved in small groups where survival depended on recognizing honesty. A group can dilute private grudges and blind spots; face-to-face judgment uses cues we have developed forever. Phones reverse that: isolated people absorb endless information without shared deliberation or a way to test it. A jury restores those conditions, using defined questions and legal instructions. The jury room also trains citizens for self-government.
If everyone has biases, why life tenure for judges?
A judge with a fixed exit date may plan the next job and favor universities, firms, or interests that could hire them. Life tenure removes that temptation. Chief judges can already limit a colleague’s work when capacity changes; I would not give that leverage to outside power brokers.
How do we keep courts accessible without rewarding junk cases?
Be careful with barriers: a poor person must be able to seek a remedy against a rich one. But frivolous claims need consequences, including, sometimes, the losing side covering fees and costs. Being a judge is not deciding what is morally right. My mandate is whether parties followed the law and whether it fits the Constitution, even if I dislike it.
Your book asks for evidence, not slogans, on the biggest accusations against Israel. Why take that fight around the country?
I want Americans to ask what they are being told about a close ally, and who is flooding them with it. Israel matters in cybersecurity, AI, drones, and future conflicts; I see a resilient, inventive society confronting larger enemies. On genocide, I believe the legal standard requires intent to eliminate a people. Israel’s warnings, evacuations, and protected routes for civilians in Gaza point the opposite way, while Hamas sought civilian deaths for propaganda. Criticizing policy, settlements, Ben-Gvir, or Netanyahu is normal. But demanding Israel disappear treats Jewish self-determination differently from every other national project, including a Palestinian state. In that form, anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic.
The American dream is alive. I meet people from Vietnam, Rwanda, Latin America, and the Caribbean who arrived with almost nothing and built remarkable lives. I am a beneficiary of that opportunity, and I see it everywhere.
We kept trying to recruit you for office. You have the quarterback thing: fast, prepared, and able to make the case from any angle.
Honestly, I am thinking about coaching my nine- and six-year-olds’ baseball games. I love serving as a judge. It is hard, stimulating work, and I am happy doing it.
The usable lesson is to work your ass off, keep stretching, and get better through practice. His story made me more positive about young people and America.
Carry that patriotism forward: love the country, contribute to it, serve it, and criticize it when needed without teaching people it is worthless. Share the show with somebody who would enjoy it; we are genuinely humbled that people are listening.